WOW! An excellent article! As much as I hate palmers, and as much as I hate truisms...they are a business. Businesses are in it to make money, and unless they are a Charity, they will make money regardless of the cost to the local community and/or the poor souls who worked for them, and the money will go to line the pockets of the owners of that business. FACT. It is wholey naiive to assume that Palmer's would ever have the slightest interest in letting their old pub premises be used by independents. Why make it easier for the competition? They are already suffering at the hands of No.10, the B&B, the Tiger, The Bull, The Woodman, The Hope and Anchor and The Greyhound. Infact they are probably in a panic. I believe that Palmers are moth-balling their Hospitality business. They are focusing on the few Palmer's pubs that still retain their potential and are cutting their losses with the others. The Boot, is likely to be the first of many. Let's face it, apart from the landlord, who has probably been financially raped by Palmers for his entire tennancy, how many regulars are likely to be a little miffed that they have to walk the extra 200 yards to the Kings Arms? I'll tell you; 3 men and a small terrier. That's who. I think there's a good mix in town at the moment. There even a reasonable choice to make about where you fancy a drink. The Tiger is doing the right thing. The new owner may be an out of towner, but he is a good bloke, he has boosted the business, and ditching the food-side to turn it into a drinkers pub, of which there are far too few of these days. At the end of the day Palmer's will, I believe, simply brew beer and sell wholesale to distributers, and may retain 2 or 3 pubs (and of course their property development side will grow and grow). These remaining pubs will simply be there to reflect a symbol of their presence in the area. They will not be big money makers for them, as most people will be paying £2.40 a pint somewhere else. I don't think this is a bad thing. In a way...'the people' now have a choice, and 'the people' are winning.
Posted by Real World, on 20-06-2007 08:18,
Blimey - I agree with Carlito about something. Having only been drinking in Briport for 4 years, I was unaware that all the pubs mentioned in the editorial had closed. To my mind there does seem to be enough pubs. Palmers can't be expected to finance pubs that can't make a profit. It's not only Bridport where pubs are closing - there are so many reasons why it's so difficult to survive by just selling beer - drink driving, home drinking, smoking ban, more TV channels than you can shake a stick at etc. That's why most pubs turn to food - the average drinker will spend, what, a tenner at the most a night - whilst a dining bill will be three times that.
Posted by cordless, on 20-06-2007 09:34,
i'm sorry east street resident, carlito is right.palmers and pubs are busineses and not charities (at least they pay rates). look at poor old ""west one"" (re hardys),tried everythink to atract trade but without luck.you got to remember the town is now full of coffe bars and restaurants that are selling beer as well. when the smokin ban starts in july it will kiss goodbye to a few more pubs
Posted by Carlito, on 20-06-2007 10:57,
Realworld, although I am quite ashamed that you agree with me on the ""Palmers are a business"" angle, may I also state with glee that it is evident that your finger is so far from the Bridport Pulse, you're actually just causing a bruising on it's wrist! £10 a night drinking? Multiply that by 8 and you're getting close. This is a drinking town, has been and always will be. £10 may buy you 3 pints, but after 3 pints, it's hard not to have another 3, and then buy your mates a few...and then go on to shorts...and then shooters...and then back to a few more pints to wash all that down. Then there's the beer munchies, and the cab home...and losing your wallet in a hedge. That's the realworld.
Posted by Rustic, on 20-06-2007 16:00,
First of all the article header made me cry out of sadness at loosing some great old pubs (The Eight Bells Beaminster springs to mind as the biggest and most tragic loss ever to blight the area) and Carlitos response made me cry with impotent frustration as to how business profit has become the most important and influential factor in all our lives, whether we are involved in business or not and whether we like it or not. For thirty five years I have been frequenting the pubs in and around Bridport but once I wipe the rose tinted gossamer of romantic idealism from my eyes I am forced to admit that as society and tastes change then so does the make up of our socialising venues. The question as to “are pubs better now, than they were?” is a mute one as we are “here” now, in this space of time and what we have is what we have. You can choose to go down to the public outlet (pub, café bar, bistro, boutique blah blah) and consume this nation’s socially acceptable drug, alcohol, or you can choose not to. The tragic travesty for the pubs in Bridport is that since the Bentleys sold the Cavity in 1997 no-one has pushed the boundaries with what you can do with a bar, (possibly No10 and B&B could be a little bit exempt from that comment) therefore it is just the same old same old, going round and round again, like a merry-go-round of alcohol induced tedium. Will some-one please do something, somewhere where the drinking public can look forward to a night out rather than think twice about which pub to sit in and for how long. Bloody hell I am all maudlin now so I am off out for a pint
Posted by Rustic, on 20-06-2007 16:05,
Realworld needs to understand that Palmers have never “financed” any pubs to keep them running, what they do is prey on the dreams of people who would like to run a pub in the country, they spend a fortune to go in only to find that times have changed and they have just bought a fast ticket to financial ruin. As they sit amongst the debris of their shattered dreams the only sound to be heard is that of palmers & Co rubbing their hands whilst looking for the next sucker. As time moves on and people become more business savvy there are fewer mugs to go round so the less viable pubs will close as a result. Well said Carlito about the night out by the way, as you so rightly point out, once you have spent the afternoon with a few pints and it is getting to around 7 ish then it's time to go out on the lash and I have rarely come in with much change out of 75 quid.
Posted by Real World, on 20-06-2007 16:27,
Carlito - I like your style. I'd like to have a night out with you before you enter the cirrhosis ward at Dorchester General. £80 a night on booze? Your contribution to Mr Palmer's holiday fund must be most appreciated.
Posted by Bentley, on 21-06-2007 05:49,
I never thought I would see the day when Realworld and Carlito got all touchy feely. Watch out carlito as it sounds like you would be paying for most of the ""booze"" while realworld observed in an ""anthropologist"" sort of way, the behaviour of the locals so better to mimic it and try to become one. Ten pound a night!!! It used to cost more than ten poound a night when beer was 50 pence a pint. You're not a northener by any chance are you realworld?
Posted by Carlito, on 21-06-2007 08:07,
Well said Rustic. I hated writing my bit. As I typed I felt like I was giving in to the horrible cold reality of how Palmers operate. As you said, we're stuck with it. I too have not been as satisfied as I used to be in the ""Cavity Days"" with a nice place to go. It was a place that felt like a 2nd home to everyone. It was welcoming, personal, friendly and seemed to have something on every weekend, and at points during every week. The problem is Rustic, anyone with enough money to open a new bar in Bridport is not going to be the same kind of person to want ""another Cavity"". The Beach & Barnicott got pretty close, but they are helplessly invaded regularly by the clientel of a Candian youth club. The bar staff are either too efficient and not personal enough, so you feel like cattle, or they're too busy chatting to their chums at the end of the bar to notice you. The Cavity could never be replaced, but wasn't the bar more of a reflection on the ""time"" rather than the the bar itself. Remember what life was like then, remember how Bridport WAS. I think the town has changed, the people in it have changed, and our lives have changed. I LOVED being unemployed or just getting work here and there for a year in the Cavity Days...I used to sit in there from breakfast time with a Mochachino poured by the georgous Siobhan and do the Consice Guardian crossword, pop out for a magazine, come back for a Cheese- Beano for lunch and basically start drinking from then...Anyone who came through that door could start a great conversation with you, and if no one was coming in, Bentley, Mary or Mo would be there for a great gossip-ridden chinwag. That place was magical. But in addition, that place IN OUR LIVES was magical. If the cavity opened again today, with all the same faces, would it be the same experience? I fear not.
Posted by denzlepob, on 21-06-2007 14:12,
Daddy, what's a Pub?
Posted by Carlito, on 21-06-2007 16:58,
Realworld - catch me at the £40 mark and I'll have a drink with you. Any time after that I can't be held responsible for my actions, and any time earlier, I can be held responsible for my actions but, in your case, simply wouldn't care what those actions were.
Posted by Morning Loves It, on 21-06-2007 19:17,
My happiest memory of Bentley and The Cavity was the New Years Eve when they laid on celebrating the Global New Year. At midnight from around the world they served national food on the hour, every hour complimented with their signature drink. I don't remember the year. If you'd Been There then neither would you. It was historic.
Posted by Rustic, on 22-06-2007 05:42,
Ah we could all remaniss about the Cavity and our favourite bits, how it could turn from a great cafe under the quiet, calming and gentle influence of Jilly during the day and turn into one of the best venues in the world under the guiding hand of Bentley at night, but Carlto has a point and that is times have changed a bit and we have changed a bit. My point of mentioning the cavity was to raise the subject of why no-one who runs a pub these days seems to have any imagination that stretches beyond darts, kareoke, disco, or band. And while we are at it, wouldn't it be a good idea if people who did decide to run a pub actually liked people, or employed bar staff tthat had some character and could banter with the customers. It is us who pay their wages.
Posted by Real World, on 22-06-2007 14:23,
Where was this Cavity place of which you talk - and what became of it ?
Posted by Carlito, on 22-06-2007 15:29,
Realworld I am extremely tempted to say ""If you don't know, then you don't deserve to know""...but it's Friday PM and I am feeling generous. The Cavity, as it's name suggests, was below the Dentist in East Street. As far as I can recall, Bentley bowed out and the bar was taken over by a local ""entrepeneur"" who's name I won't mention, who is a nice enough chap. The buzz started to die, the dentist complained more and more about the noise, and music nights etc. were therefore put on less and less often. I seem to remeber the advertising dropping off too. Eventally, and I may be wrong here, the new owner (or at least one of the new owners), declared himself bankrupt and the whole thing fizzled out. I can remember when it happened. It was as if someone had just closed the front door of your house and said...""sorry mate, can't go in there anymore."" What followed was a nuclear winter for all who had enjoyed the Cavity. Desolation, despair and disorientation. Drinkers found themselves in unfamiliar surroundings, being linched by the chavs who hadn't dared enter the Cavity, and had been lying in wait. Then, soon enough, in true Bridport tradition, everyone just found somewhere else to drink and joined The George-brigade. Then No.10 opened, and there was a glimmer of hope. This story goes on forever! Someone else carry on!
Posted by Bentley, on 22-06-2007 16:53,
The Cavity was a cellar bar underneath the dentist in East St now called K2. Before Jilly and Bentley bought it in August 1995 it had been many things including Bistro Lautrec, Sweet Peas and Bushels Brassiere, its finest incarnation however was as the Cavity. (a name that the unsung heroine of the place, Jilly, came up with because of its location). It used to attract people for miles around and was practically impossible to get into on a Tuesday and Wednesday night for the open music spots and on Friday and Saturday it could be anything. During the day it was a lively and talkative cafe and at night it transformed into either a disco with Sca, Dub Reggae, Ben T and his wheels of Steel and the legendary Dr Funk, sometimes is was a music venue playing host to among others PJ Harvey, Show of Hands, and too many more to mention, sometimes it was a comedy club, I was there once when they turned it into a market for customers who did a bit of craft to flog their stuff before Christmas, I can remember Poets Corner, the constant game of hangman behind the bar that you had to guess a letter for before Bentley would serve you, it was warm, welcoming, invigorating friendly and loads of other good things as well. The Bentleys decided to keep their family together and sold it in 1997 to Matt Roskell who tried to run it along the same lines for another year or two but it eventually closed. Georges bakery ran it as a cake and tea sort of place for a while and then a couple of chaps opened it as a foody place called Portz then it became K2. To have known it in its heyday of the Cavity was to know just what a diversely rich, plentiful smorgasbord of talented people Bridport was, and probably still is if only someone with some imagination and bravery actually ran a pub in Bridport so the sleeping talents could wake up and come out to play once more.
Posted by Morning Loves It, on 22-06-2007 17:26,
Have we really changed that much Rustic? Perhaps we have. The Sad News For Comedy topic does confirm this. Bentley pulled out of the mid-week comedy night in May at the B & B because the lack of ticket sales made the event too much of a financial risk. We spent two years or so of summer Sunday lunchtimes in the 90s in the basement that was 'Cavitys' at Bentley's Comedy events. Maybe it was the guilty sensation of being in a basement/cellar bar when the sun was shining and we should have been walking the coastal path, cycling, cooking a Sunday Roast made it more alluring. The acts were so good that Bentley created Pee>Pint>Poo breaks so we'd spend some money across the bar. Bentley, Gilly, Mo, Mary etc covered all needs. They smiled, they cared and They Liked People. Important ingredients. No:10 still has it. B & B still has it. RealWorld. It began as Lautrec's Bistro in the 70s. We had a Bistro and the Chef was Hamish Maxwell, the Blues Vocalist of Custers and we had Onion Soup, Grilled Whole Trout With Almonds, Pate and Apple Strudel. Food I'd like to find and eat now in Bridport as it was real, non-pretentious, a fun experience. The basement Bistro has changed hands many times over the last thirty years - as expected - but I can't remember what its called now. All this Nostalgia! I need wine.
Posted by shagsack, on 22-06-2007 17:59,
oh you're back, great. What on earth do you want to know for??? -so you can tell us about similar bars that you've known in londun, or perhaps so you'll have a topic of conversation when you find yourself out and among locals, so you can fit in? Call me cynical but if you're down for your weekend smarm you can stop right there. PS. the thread you should be on is ABUSE THY MEMBER... you should be a master by now!! BRING IT ON (and your little dog too)
Posted by tuzo, on 22-06-2007 20:47,
the boozy old windbags might last a bit longer.. dunno?
Posted by Real World, on 22-06-2007 20:48,
Shagsack - all I wanted was a bit of information. I'm sincerly interested in where this place was. Your tiresome inverted snobbery is boring.
Posted by Real World, on 23-06-2007 07:24,
With all this talk of pubs - what's going to happen to the mountain of ashtrays that will be obsolete from 1st July?
Posted by Rustic, on 23-06-2007 13:00,
Hello there Morning Loves It (and don't we all love it in the mornings) I think that as time passes we do change, some more subtly than others, and Bridport, as a community, has changed faster than many of us would like. The rest of us are slowly evolving, but Bridport as a whole has mutated rather than evolved and is where it is today as a result. Luckily I have been here so long I love it for what it was and I also love it for what it is, like you that’s why I live here. I asked Bentley about the comedy and he said that there were many reasons why the tickets (for the first time in 5 years) didn't sell out before the event, among them was that he wasn't around to ""talk it up"", and the fact that he had rather daftly chosen a date two days after a long bank holiday. Had a long laugh filled talk about the comedy in the cavity. Asked him why he sold it, answer ""I am a great front man but a shite businessman"" When the subject of great places to drink and meet comes up I am surprised no-one has mentioned Monique’s, which dragged Bridports finest kicking and screaming from the 60's into the mid to late 80's. My love of good wine started in there and I also I remember dashing in there for the Beaujolais Neaveuax every year at the right time. Does anyone still do that??
Posted by tuzo, on 23-06-2007 13:46,
maybe there is change indeed (morningloves it) and maybe the day for comedy routines that expect people to roll about laughing at drug addict jokes are past? In a small town where at least some of the audience have people they know and care about who are drug addicts? The laughter will be hollow, and the seats will NOT refill? Maybe the day of the boozy old geezer is coming to and end too? Maybe thats why they cant find the right pub anymore? Maybe they are the last to know? as they wake up every morning feeling like crap, angry with everything around them, and angry with themselves i should think too. And before anyone points out that i have not kept to the subject,or said it in the way that is expected or any other such nonsense .. I note here that neither have any of you what we have here, is yet another mutual admiration club ... for B.O.G.s you huddle close together as i guess you know whats ahead?
Posted by Bentley, on 23-06-2007 16:54,
Tuzo I think you will find that when it comes to comedy the comedians who perform it do indeed expect people to laugh at their joke and stories. Thats their job. Thats why they do it. What they dont do is collect a personal biography of every person who walks through the door to find out what may or may not offend them and alter their act accordingly. Had you been a regular at the very full and often over subscribed Comedy club that has been running in Bridport for the last 15 years you may have realised that. I think that pubs have become tired of themselves and people are searching for new ways to entertain and share the drug alcohol in a social setting, so sadly I have to concede that your BOG point may have some substance to it.
Posted by Morning Loves It, on 23-06-2007 17:37,
Even worse for Bentley was it was two days after The Third Bank Holiday weekend within six weeks. You get a late Easter, a Mayday and then a Spring Bank-Holiday and it is Running Out Of Steam Time. Good to hear you had a 'laugh filled talk about the comedy' with Bentley (I assume?) Thanks for the Monique mention. She and Hugh deserve to be remembered. It was launched as a Wine Bar but if it was launched now would it be a Brasserie? I was a Publican/Restaurateur during the Beaujolais Years and in those bleak times it was fun. We used to have Runners bringing cases of George Duboeuf across the Channel, racing to get the wine to us and ready to serve with the Special Menu. Does anyone still do that? Doubt it. One day, when I feel brave, I shall explain my User-Name. On the other hand - why should I?
Posted by Carlito, on 24-06-2007 17:58,
Tuzo - can't you just leave us to all reminice without hollow questioning raised from the Tuzo-camp? And tell me, why do you put a question mark at the end of nearly every sentence, whether it be a question or not? (note: proper use of question marks above). I remember Moniques, I met someone in there who used to read 2000AD comics and drink all day. I still know him now. I also met Polly in there for the first time, when Andrew Dickson roped a bunch of us together for some musical exploration! Funny how things turn out eh? Could Bridport keep a WINE bar afloat? I'd love to open a dingy wine bar, where the closest thing to food you get is a bowl of exceptional olives and some home-roasted nuts. Proper wine. Wine you can't find in the super market or on the menu at the riverside. Of course it would have to have Jazz on the in-house system 24/7. That'd be cool. I'd call it La Musique de Vin. Anyone out there with £500,000?
Posted by tuzo, on 24-06-2007 22:51,
i had been a regular of the cavity (oooargh) and i agree it was one of a kind, and was sad to see it go, I remember mathews stint there too, dont think he knew what he was doing really,just getting his mates it it looked like. The reason i use question marks carlito a cara, is because surprise surprise...they are questions... you have no need to answer then, that bit is optional, play some leadbelly and i might come and visit your wine bar
Posted by Rustic, on 25-06-2007 08:29,
Hi Morning Loves It, please don't explain your user name as I like to conjure up my own image when I start typing first thing in the morning, puts a smile on my face for the day. AS for carlito I love the sound of the Wine bit of your bar but the jazz bit would put me off how about just having the music of people’s joyous conversation and laughter. When I am out imbibing in alcohol and social intercourse the only time I take any notice of the music is to either ask ""what is this rubbish?"" or ""can you turn this bloody awful row down please?"" Obviously I don’t say that if I am down the disco but I think you get my drift.
Posted by Carlito, on 25-06-2007 09:15,
Hmmm...ok maybe Jazz 24/7 would be a little much. I just like something ""rippling"" away in the background though... Leadbelly Tuzo? You got the Blues have you? Well poor you.
Posted by shagsack, on 25-06-2007 09:49,
If Carlito ran it, surely it would be a 'Whine Bar' (...jazz is musical wan*#ng!) -I'd rather listen to the coffee machine.
